The future of Norway's monarchy

[Macaw]

About Maxima, I agree in essence, but I dislike her tacit support for her father's involvement in the military junta. Her words at the time of the engagement, that he did his best for agriculture as minister, were not the unequivocal rejection of the evils perpetrated by the military dictators in her home country that I would have liked, regardless of what her father did or didn't do. I understand her loyalty to her father, but as the wife of the future king of the Netherlands she should have left no doubt of where she stood, whatever her private political sympathies may be.

Well said, Gwen.  My impression was that not having him at her wedding was a bone she tossed to shut the skeptics up - IMRIC, they went on honeymoon with her parents.  I feel this all the more strongly as the book I am currently reading details a lot about Videla's regime and any notion that her father didn't know what was going on would be hilarious were it not so mendacious.  I would like to think that her private political sympathies were not with authoritarian kleptocrats but I am not convinced.   

[fairy]

Thanks for the info Reardon. I hope that parliament and Beatrix pass the law that would enable Maxima to become Queen consort.

AfaIr there is no law in construction that needs passing: in fact the bill that specifies the future titles of members of the royal family was only introduced in the last years:
Emanzipation rules: the consorts of the monarchs will only carry the title of Prince or Princess no matter what gender.
On the other hand equally gender independant the title of "prince of Orange" will go to the heir as well as the heiress, so that Amalia will become the "Princess of Orange", as opposed to the QueenBee, who as heir presumptive and a female wasn't carrying this title.
In addition the off-spring of the younger sons and daughters of the monarch will not be granted the HRH prince(ss) title. (as opposed to the former generation that passed on the titles even thru the female line (magriets family!!!)
So although I have my doubts if Wimlex and Max won't change it to accomodate Max ego, in theory that boat has sailed for good.

[dutchess]

Thanks for the info Reardon. I hope that parliament and Beatrix pass the law that would enable Maxima to become Queen consort.

AfaIr there is no law in construction that needs passing: in fact the bill that specifies the future titles of members of the royal family was only introduced in the last years:
Emanzipation rules: the consorts of the monarchs will only carry the title of Prince or Princess no matter what gender.
On the other hand equally gender independant the title of "prince of Orange" will go to the heir as well as the heiress, so that Amalia will become the "Princess of Orange", as opposed to the QueenBee, who as heir presumptive and a female wasn't carrying this title.
In addition the off-spring of the younger sons and daughters of the monarch will not be granted the HRH prince(ss) title. (as opposed to the former generation that passed on the titles even thru the female line (magriets family!!!)
So although I have my doubts if Wimlex and Max won't change it to accomodate Max ego, in theory that boat has sailed for good.

Fairy, Margriet's sons are no HRH's, just HH's. That was done because Irene had married without permission of the Parliament and Margriet became Princess nr. 2 after that. The HH-title isn't hereditary as well, so the children of gorgeous Maurits and his brothers are untitled commoners "just like the rest of us" (well, would you believe that, I don't...). I would be very surprised if Max became "just" Princess-Consort, nobody would blink an eye over here if she became Queen-Consort. Irene's children have titles because of their father (who sadly passed away this week) and Christina's children are just called Guillermo. The exception was made for Margriet because of her being the spare back in the sixties.

[fairy]

Completely understand, but:
nevertheless Margriet's sons are styled as princes. Spares for the heir? Considering that the QueenBee has three sons herself that spare theory is a bit thin...
M's oldest son was born only a few month before B's second, so the heir had already been there and the spare was on the home stretch, no need to keep the cousin at the sidelines - however one generation later the first grandchild, Eloise was born a year and a half before the heir Amalia. It is a moot point, of course..
My point however was that there have been some new law governing the distribution of the titles, the "membership" to the Royal House (as opposed to royal family!) and honestly I have always found those new rules extremely emanzipated, modern and fair...
But I also don't think that Max will be content with Princess when all other crown princesses will become queens...

[royal observer]

The only one I like a bit is Mathilde, Maxima has the personality to be a good queen but her father's past for me makes her lose a lot of points  

The rest....  

I understand where you come from Rearden, but I for myself don't necessarily judge by anybody's forefathers. Otherwise I would have to round up all royalty in the world (and some other people for that matter) and put them under the guillotine.

I agree but at the same time I disagree   For me a future queen should not have anything dirty in her past or her family's past, if anyone can become queen the monarchy loses their meaning.

Well if family history is taken into consideration, then there's a double whammy against MM. Her father was an absolute disgrace and frequented strip joints and brothels. He then married a decades younger stripper shortly before he died.  

Mette Marit can't be held accountable for the actions of her idiot father. Just as Maxima can't be held accountable for the actions of her father. Who was a minister in a murderous miltary junta!.

Anyway, Mette Marit was pretty much estranged from her father. Or had a tense relationship with him. Which is an indication that she didn't approve of his behaviour.

I'm not saying that MM should be held accountable for her father's behavior, just as I don't think Maxima should be held accountable for her father either. I was simply responding to Reardon's comment that  a future queen shouldn't have anything dirty in their backgrounds.

[Rearden]

I'm not saying that MM should be held accountable for her father's behavior, just as I don't think Maxima should be held accountable for her father either. I was simply responding to Reardon's comment that  a future queen shouldn't have anything dirty in their backgrounds.

It's Rearden   

About this topic I agree that in general the parents behaviour shoud not influence our opinion in thir children, but imo Maxima's father past is where I put the limit. 

[royal observer]

I'm not saying that MM should be held accountable for her father's behavior, just as I don't think Maxima should be held accountable for her father either. I was simply responding to Reardon's comment that  a future queen shouldn't have anything dirty in their backgrounds.

It's Rearden   

About this topic I agree that in general the parents behaviour shoud not influence our opinion in thir children, but imo Maxima's father past is where I put the limit. 

Okay Rearden! 

[norwegianne]

I talked to a guy at dinner tonight, and his almost exact words were: "I'm not a royalist, but I don't mimd the Norwegian royal family. Barring extreme circumstances, I think Norway will continue as a monarchy"

There was also a comment on MM's party girl past, but he ended up saying that past was past, and that at its current structure in the Norwegian society, changing the head of state from a republic to a monarchy, would make next to no sense from a financial pov. (he's in finance, so big on numbers, obviously)

Just thought I'd give an update from a randomlu selected Norwegian, heterosexual male.

[Rearden]

Thank you Norwegianne, every opinion is welcome  I like to read all your opinions about this topic, I got interested in it when I read about in TRF before I've never thought that norways monarchy hadn't much future 

[Rearden]

Political Controversy at Norwegian Parliament Gala

On Thursday, Norway’s King Harald V hosted the annual banquet for the Stortinget, or Parliament. The dinner party has been held annually since 1906, and is a big tradition for Norwegian politicians to dine with their royal family. However, this year’s gala saw politics flare up over some Parliament members’ anti-monarchist beliefs.

Gina Barstad and Snorre Valen, both members of the Socialist Left (SV) party, chose not to go the event, in which the King invites the politicians. Both claimed that to attend would have gone against their political viewpoints.

“Saying ‘no thank you’ is something that several other MPs from SV have done before me, and my opinion is that each MP must make their own decision,” Barstad told newspaper Aftenposten.

Valen said he had no desire “to take part in a ceremonial celebration of the monarchy, which is an undemocratic institution.”

Another member of the SV, Aksel Hagel, did accept the invitation this year, although in 2009, he declined.

The actions of the SV members upset some more conservative politicians, such as Linda Hofstad Helleland. She called Barstad and Valen “childish” and told Aftenposten, “When King Harald invites for an annual get-together, we should accept to show him and the monarchy some respect.”

“We invite the King for the opening of the parliament once a year, and he comes,” she said. “Then we should also come on the one day of the year when we’re invited to the palace.”

Helleland also reportedly pleaded to the president of the parliament, Dag Terje Andersen, and asked him to “strongly urge” all MPs “to show respect for the king and the monarchy.”

40 percent of the Stortinget hold republican views. Those who support an end to the monarchy are usually the younger members.

http://www.royaltyinthene...orwegian-parliament-gala/

anyone knows more about this?? 

[Nattie Lite]

There wasn't a lot more to it than that, I don't think.  All the newspaper reports were pretty much along the same lines as this article.

I have mixed feelings about what the two MPs did.  Although I've not always agreed with some of our presidents, if I were a member of Congress and was invited to the White House, I would go and be respectful, both out of respect for my country, and out of respect for the fact that I was elected to represent all of my constituents, even those with views different than my own.  Attending a dinner at the White House isn't an expression of support for the president and, similarly, attending the Stortinget gala isn't an expression of support for the monarchy, IMO.  But I respect people's right to feel differently than I do, so I can't really criticize the MPs for their actions if they felt they were taking a principled stand.  I'm just not sure what they were attending to accomplish, though, other than drawing attention to themselves, because it's obvious that the monarchy isn't in any danger of being abolished anytime soon.

In fact, given that 40% of Stortinget hold republican views, it always shocks me how little actual support there is for replacing the monarchy with a republic -- indeed, it seems to become less popular with each successive vote.  This past May, only 12% supported the SV's proposal (17 votes for, 125 against).  In 2008, it was 17% (21 votes for and 106 against), as it also was in 2004 (26 votes for, 126 against).

[Rearden]

TY Nattie!!   

[Nattie Lite]

Sure thing.  Here's one back for you!

[Rearden]

you know norwegian no? It's nice to have someone who follows the norwegian royal house, we get more info that way 

[Nattie Lite]

you know norwegian no? It's nice to have someone who follows the norwegian royal house, we get more info that way 

I wish I did, although I'm slowly learning.  Ever since I started paying attention to royalty beyond the BRF (the only royal family that really gets any coverage in the States these days), the NRF has been the one I follow the most closely, so I've picked up bits and pieces of the language here and there.  I'll probably start more formalized lessons soon, since my brother and I are planning on taking a tour of Scandinavia next year.